Transcript-
Shannon Gonter:
Hey everyone. I'm Shannon Gonter, a licensed professional counselor, practicing in private practice in Louisville, Kentucky and today I'm here to interview Brittany Johnson. If you want to go ahead and introduce yourself.
Brittany Johnson:
Hi everybody, my name is Brittany A. Johnson. I am a licensed mental health counselor in New Albany, Indiana. That's where my private practice is. I am also the author of a book titled, Get Out of Your Own Way, and I am glad to be here with you, Shannon today.
Shannon Gonter:
Yeah, well we're just going to answer some questions that I know are always floating around about mental health counseling and just kind of break down some of the basics and barriers for people who are thinking about counseling or want to just know more about it. So, let's just start out with what is therapy?
Brittany Johnson:
All right. So to me, therapy is going to see someone or seeing someone on your computer or over the phone, and it's a professional who has went through training and education. And they are going to give you a non-biased, nonjudgmental listening ear. Going to therapy, also, in my opinion, is someone who is trained to help you sort through anything that's cluttered in your mind, anything going on in your life; past, present, future.
And so to me, that's what therapy is just going to see someone that is going to give you an objective view of what you're saying and what you're doing and help you reach goals that you've established or help you clear out things that have got you stuck or you've experienced in your past.
Shannon Gonter:
Yeah, definitely. And you talked a little bit about the education. There's lots of different letters that come after all of our names. For example, I'm a licensed professional clinical counselor, so that's LPCC in the state of Kentucky. And then what license are you?
Brittany Johnson:
My license in Indiana is a licensed mental health counselor, which is the equivalent of an LPCC in Kentucky, or an LPC in Illinois, or LPC in Ohio.
Shannon Gonter:
Yeah, yeah. What are some other letters that people might see behind people's names that would be licensed therapists?
Brittany Johnson:
Yeah. Typically, the most common one that you typically see, is a licensed clinical social worker or LCSW. And then an LMFT, which is a licensed marriage and family therapist, as well. So those are the common ones that you see for masters level. Now when you start talking about doctorate level therapists, you'll see a [inaudible 00:02:40] which are licensed clinical psychologist. And then PhD is also one that I've started to see a little bit lately, which are traditional PhD degrees in counseling, or whatnot. I forgot about the drug and alcohol certificate. There's also, I think it's, LACD or LDC. Sorry, [inaudible 00:03:02] a little bit. It's different in each state, but it's the licensed drug and alcohol counselors.
Shannon Gonter:
Yeah, definitely. And then, the MDs are nurse practitioners of psychiatrists or practitioners who are going to be the ones prescribing medications. Definitely a difference between individuals who prescribe the medications and people who do talk therapy. And then, so if I'm a client looking to do therapy with someone, are there different like modalities or theories that different therapists work from? And what may work best with my personality or maybe my presenting an issue that I'm struggling with?
Brittany Johnson:
Yes, definitely. One of the things I don't think I mentioned in my introduction, but I am certified in EMDR, which is the eye movement desensitization reprocessing therapy. So with EMDR, that modality, we believe that you work from a negative belief system, and that your negative belief system has overtaken the positive belief system, and it has caused you to have things that you've experienced or thoughts that you have, that get stuck in your neuro networks. And we work to help you reprocess those and get those things unstuck. And then also, help you strengthen and increase your positive belief neuro networks. And then, there's also traditionally cognitive behavioral therapy, which is very common. And most therapists will say that that's their modality of comfort, or that that's the way that they view helping change clients perspectives. And so, with cognitive behavioral, it's definitely one where they really look at what are you thinking? So cognitive cognitions, what are your thoughts? Are they distorted thoughts, which means that they keep you stuck. Again, kind of like EMDR. And then you learn to challenge and replace them with thoughts that are positive or helpful, as I like to call them. And so, I also use CBT, as well. And then there's DBT, which I think is dialect ... I can never say that word. There we go. And so, that really starts talking about emotional responses, and emotional regulation, and things like that, to help people function in life and live successfully. Those are the common ones that I see. Psychoanalytic, as well, which I haven't seen too many people advertise as being psychoanalytic therapists anymore, but that's traditional Freud, if you know anything about psychology.
Shannon Gonter:
Yeah, yeah. There's tons of different modalities and theories out there, which I'd say from a client's perspective, it can get pretty overwhelming. And so, through lots of research and lots of things throughout the years of psychology, they've pretty much proven that the relationship is the biggest part of the client/therapist work that people see progress out of. And so, if your a client, and you're getting super overwhelmed by all these letters and all these credentials and all these things, that's okay. You don't really have to focus in on that too much. That's part of the therapist's job. But to even get to this space as a client, how do people even find a therapist if they know counseling is something they want to integrate into their life or try?
Brittany Johnson:
Definitely. I always tell people a Google search is your first go-to. It's your favorite, or the easiest. And so, you can type "licensed therapists near me" in your Google search bar and it will come up a list of therapists that are in your area or people who have identified themselves as therapists in your area. Psychology Today is still one of the biggest search engines or search bars for a licensed therapist. There are psychologists on there that are licensed clinical social workers. There's LPCC, there's LMHCs. We are all on Psychology Today. And then, if you are looking for something more specific, there is a site for people of color. It's called Therapy for Black Girls. It's a directory of all clinicians of color or female clinicians of color for people to search. And then there is one noun, and you'd have to search therapy for LGBTQ, but there's actually a website that is just dedicated for therapy for people who identify as LGBTQ. And so, any clinician that's on that directory has already been vetted and markets themselves as being friendly to that community, educated on that community, and ready to serve that community. So, those are the top three sites that I've typically sent people to when they're looking for therapy.
Shannon Gonter:
Yeah, those are all really good ones. One, and I can't remember the name of that one either for the LBGTQ community, but it is really great. And they have tons of physicians and other providers on there, too. I can't think of the name. Another one that I typically mention as well, and we'll kind of get into this in a little bit, is for individuals who struggle financially to pay for counseling. There's the Open Path Collective that is really good. How it works as a client is, you pay a lifetime membership fee to be an Open Path client and then you have access to a full network of therapists nationwide. And so, of course, if you live in Mobile, you're not going to see a therapist in San Francisco. But if you ever happened to move to San Francisco, you would be able to have access to this Open Path therapist, as well. And as an Open Path client, you're able to receive therapy for affordable prices. So, that can be really helpful for people who do have financial hardships, because therapy, of course, is a financial commitment on clients and as well as a personal and time commitment, too. And so, segwaying into that, how do people pay for therapy? Or what are all the options, I suppose.
Brittany Johnson:
Right. Luckily, we have the act that was passed by President Bush that made mental health be equal to physical health with your insurance, with your employer, and on insurance companies. So if you have a full time job or part time job that has medical benefits, you very likely also have mental health benefits. So that is kind of your first go-to is to check your insurance provider and see does your plan cover mental and behavioral health? So that's one way that you can go and if that is the case, each of those insurance companies have a directory of therapists, as well. And then Psychology Today, and then, typical websites, a lot of therapists list what insurances they accept on there, too. So, that's one way that you can do it. There is a private pay. You find a therapist. So let's say you decided to call Shannon because you saw her website and everything she had on there just really spoke to you, so you call her and you say, "Hey, I don't have insurance. I'd like to come." That means you are taking on the full financial responsibility to pay whatever fee Shannon has developed or determined for seeing clients. I have a lot of clients that do like to come and do private pay, and it is an investment in your health. But the way we talk about it is, you make investments on all types of things. If you like to go to Starbucks, that's an investment in your Starbucks' taste, right? If you like to buy shoes, that's an investment in your shoe collection. And so, mental health is the same way, if you were going to a spa. Then there's also, as Shannon mentioned, Open Path. There are some people who do, and I don't think we mentioned this yet, but there are some new ways and means to get therapy through online or tele-health. So there are places like Talkspace and BetterHelp. So for Talkspace, I know I've done a little bit of research on them. You pay a fee every month and then you get access to a therapist via your phone and your computer. So you never physically go to an office, you just do texts and video chats that way. So, that's kind of ways people pay. Going back to your employer, if you have an HSA or an FSA card, so a flexible spending account, you can use those to pay for therapy, as well. And many therapists take all sorts of means and methods of payment.
Shannon Gonter:
Yeah, definitely. What if you're on on a therapist's site and they say I'm an out-of-network provider or an in-network provider. What do those terminologies mean?
Brittany Johnson:
Definitely. So, in-network provider means that that therapist has signed a contract with your insurance company, and they have agreed to only charge a certain amount of money per session. And then you would pay your copay or coinsurance, meaning whatever you split with your insurance company on medical bills, is the same way for mental health. So that's the in-network. So that means that you'll go see that therapist, they will collect your copay and then they will submit a claim to the insurance company on your behalf. And all you have to do is come in, be seen, and pay your copay. For out-of-network, there are some therapists who do submit those claims, as well. But I'll get into that in a second. But out-of-network means I do not have a contract with your insurance company, so I can charge you my full fee, which ranges in this area from anywhere from $60 to $250. So depending on the therapist and their experience, they set their fees. An out-of-network therapist is going to charge you their fee. So let's say our fee, Shannon and I have agreed that we both are going to charge people $100 per session. As the out-of-network therapist, I will collect the $150 from you. And then I will give you a piece of paper for you to submit to your insurance. Or again, like I mentioned a little while ago, there are some therapists who go ahead and submit those claims for you on your behalf. I, in my practice, I do not do that. I leave that up to the client. If they want to see me as an out-of-network, I will give them, it's called a super bill, but it's a piece of paper that says you paid me this amount of money so that you can submit to your insurance company and get reimbursement.
Shannon Gonter:
Yeah. Yeah. And the super bills are really great. I have a lot of clients that use them and some people are getting reimbursed close to 80% of my fee. And so, it can be really helpful. And even if you're getting reimbursed about 10%, that's 10% you're getting back for taking that time to spend to better yourself. So, that can be really helpful.
Brittany Johnson:
Definitely.
Shannon Gonter:
And then, what about if people see private pay and sliding scale on someone's website? What does sliding scale mean?
Brittany Johnson:
Sliding scale means the therapist has decided that they're going to offer a lower rate for clients who have certain financial needs. And so, for sliding scale, most therapists if they offer that, they will ask you about your income. So, they are going to ask you questions about how much you make. And then they will determine how much of their fee they're going to waive to see you. When I first became a therapist in private practice, I did sliding scale only. I had some people who were only paying me $30 a session and then other people paying me $85 a session. I really found joy in being able to do that, being able to help therapists who other ... I'm sorry, clients who otherwise wouldn't have been able to seek therapy. But it is a courtesy from your clinician to do that.
Shannon Gonter:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. Okay. So as a client, done all of that, started therapy, found a therapist that we researched a lot, and we're kind of excited to go see. And then we're four sessions in and that excitement is dying off, or we're not really feeling that comfortable with this individual. What are our options? Or what do we do?
Brittany Johnson:
So options, you are in total control of how that that goes. So, you can stop going completely and never say anything to the therapist. Please don't do that. You can let the therapist know like, "Hey, I was really excited in the beginning but now I'm not really feeling like things are changing or things are progressing." Or you can start looking for another therapist and just start going to someone else. So even before you get to that point, and you kind of mentioned you've researched the website, you have decided on a person, most therapists offer a free 15 to 30-minute consultation. What that means is, the therapist has decided, I want to make sure that we are a good fit for each other, so I'm going to give you a free phone call. Or some of them actually do face-to-face. I'm going to give you a free ... I'm going to give you some of my time for free so that you can ask me questions and we can talk on the phone or talk face-to-face, to make sure we are actually a fit for each other. I think it's very important that anybody looking for therapy, that you use at consultation, because sometimes we have things written on our websites that sound great. And then when you go meet the person in face-to-face, none of that is matching, for whatever reason. Or they may have a belief about how to help you that you don't believe in. So I remember one time, I'll tell this quick story, I had a client. They saw my website, really wanted to come. They came in, and I didn't have a picture on my website. And so, this person made the comment, "You look way too young to be able to help me." We did the session because they came, and the entire session I could tell that it just was not going to work. So at the end of the session I was like, "You know what? I don't think this is going to work because it seems very important for you to have someone who looks older. So let me help you find someone that looks older." And so, what I know in hindsight is, I wish we would've had a conversation on the phone because we probably could have avoided all of that and it wasn't a waste of my time, but they really felt like they wasted an hour of their time coming to the appointment. So use the consultation, ask the questions that are important to you in terms of changing in your life and reaching your goals, and then go make the appointment.
Shannon Gonter:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really good point. Yeah, that is something that one is always awkward, too, of like oh, let's get on a phone with a stranger and tell them why we want to go to counseling. But that is a total normal process of finding a therapist or a counselor. And also, the true meaning of there is no stupid question. Take that time to question the therapist. And in a sense, again, you are in the power seat here. Interview them, in a sense, personality wise or are different things like that that you think are going to show up in the room and maybe are going to be a conflict for you. And typically, people who have been in counseling before, sometimes the process looks a little bit different for them. So if you are, first time seeking a therapist and on that consultation call, it's totally normal for that therapist to ask you a couple times, do you have any questions for me? Because you're supposed to be able to use this time to mutually decide on each other.
Brittany Johnson:
Yes, yes. And if this is your first time or even if it's not your first time, but you've had some really rough times with therapists, think about therapy in a sense of you are going to have some of the most intimate conversations you'll probably ever have in your life. Not intimate sexually, because that's inappropriate and shouldn't be happening, but intimate in terms of this person is going to dig into you and dig into your life in a way to help you, but they need to know how you work, how you function, how you think. So they're going to be asking some pretty intimate, detailed questions. So when you're on the phone with this person, do you get the sense that you can handle it, and they can handle it, so to speak. Because there are some things that we just, you know, as therapists we know we're not comfortable with, and as clients, we know we wouldn't be comfortable saying certain things to certain therapists.
Shannon Gonter:
Yeah, definitely. And then, I know a lot of therapists do this, and I personally do it in my practice, of the first three or so sessions I have with a client, I'm always reminding them, hey, it's totally normal. If after the third session or first session or 40th session you're not feeling it, that's okay. I know tons of other therapists in and around Louisville that I would be happy to refer you to. Because again, as a therapist, our goal is to make you the most comfortable and the most safe in the room. So if, for whatever reason, we're not going to take it personal, if you want a referral to another therapist, that's our role is to provide you with that safety. And so, it's very common within the therapist community to refer to other therapists. Just part of our career.
Brittany Johnson:
Definitely, definitely. And it's okay. And you know, I tell clients kind of in that sense, the very first session we're kind of going over the rules of our relationship and things like that. One of the things that I say to every client that comes in is, if you don't do anything else in this process, I need you to tell me if I'm not working for you. Because there's no sense in you continuing to schedule an appointment, drive over here, come sit in here, take time out of your life, if it's not working. That's the only rule I make in terms of what I require.
Shannon Gonter:
Yeah, totally. To kind of wrap it up in a sense. What do you feel like is something that'd be really helpful for someone toying with these decisions now? Maybe they've had friends or family that have been in counseling before, it's been on their radar, but really in the background, for so long. But now, they're kind of feeling like, okay, maybe I need to make a decision about this counseling thing. What's something that you feel like could be really helpful for them to hear?
Brittany Johnson:
You deserve. That's kind of my go-to. As a person who was born as a human, you deserve peace, you deserve love, you deserve happiness. I know those typically sound cliche, but you deserve everything that you want out of life. And so, if there is something that's holding you back, whether it be something from your past, whether it be a current fear, or current situation, you deserve to have that cleared up so that you can live the life that you dream about, the life that you want. And I don't mean that in sense of you're going to wake up after going to therapy and have $1 million and live on the beach for life. That's not what I mean. I just mean that you deserve to have freedom to go after something like that, because if that's your goal, then let's see what we can do to get you there.
Shannon Gonter:
Yeah, definitely. Oh, I love that. Yeah, you deserve. It's so simple and sweet but so helpful. Brittany thanks for hanging out with me today. I really appreciate you taking the time, of course, out of your busy day, but also, just to clear up some of those unknowns that a lot of people have about the therapy process.
Brittany Johnson:
Definitely. Thanks for having me. This was fun. We have to do this again.
Shannon Gonter:
Yeah. Oh, definitely. Okay. Talk soon.
Brittany Johnson:
Bye everybody.
Shannon Gonter, LPCC
I specialize in working with men and young adults. I am passionate about my career and want to work with you to create positive change. I also strive to create a counseling environment where men and young adults can relate, feel heard, and find new solutions to their negative patterns. Some issues that I most commonly work with are stress, relationship issues, difficulty saying “no” to others, difficulties recognizing emotions and emotionally connecting to others, anger, and intimacy issues, among others.
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